tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-90378460700284342062024-02-20T08:29:26.616-08:00A College SearchJim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-6549487132118634312015-10-01T08:41:00.003-07:002015-10-01T08:41:42.606-07:00 Great article and calculator on college costs<div class="post-header">
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<a href="http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20150930" target="_blank">Net price calculator.</a><br />
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Click on the link above to go to a great NPR article and calculator on true college costs.Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-50278570831631986752015-04-11T15:39:00.002-07:002015-04-11T15:39:59.100-07:00One Down, One to GoSo M is going to Grinnell. So it is time for child #2, a sophomore to start exploring schools. M's adventure; applying to seven and getting accepted at six, makes me think that seven schools may have been two too many. Or at least it was when you are mainly applying to schools that accept 70% or more of applicants - and you compare favorably with the average student that they accept.<br />
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One other lesson learned: I would discourage my child from applying to a school in anyway that is binding. (See "Days of Worry.")<br />
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This may be the end of this blog. Maybe #2's search gets her own blog, but probably not. What I want to leave you with are numbers. M's high school asked for the amounts of scholarships she won. That number is $364,000. That is a totally meaningless number that they will use in to help market themselves. She was accepted at six schools, she was offered scholarships at five of them. The sixth was Grinnell. They called all of their "free money" grants, so officially they gave her no scholarship, just a $29,898 grant. Free money is free money so I don't really care if they call it a grant or a scholarship, but the high school wants to spread the word about the scholarships that their students earned - as if they were not tied to any specific school and therefore a pile of money that she won for being a gifted student (thanks of course to her high school.) In actuality, the $364K is over four years, so that is $91K per year. And that $91K per year is comprised of $23K to Beloit College, $21K each to Lawrence University and Knox College, $18K to Illinois Wesleyan, and $8K to Truman State.<br />
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The much more important numbers are the actual number of dollars that it would take to send M to a specific college. I have numbers on four schools. Remember that these numbers are influenced by financial aid, (except for Truman State's), which means that they are taking our financial information in to account. So from your point of view the important thing might be how similar the numbers are for the private schools, and not the numbers themselves.<br />
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Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-67517845219657307562015-02-14T11:20:00.001-08:002015-02-14T11:20:32.525-08:00Days of Worry<div class="MsoNormal">
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></a>I felt like I messed up M’s life.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Had I made a mistake that was going to prevent her from attending any college next school year?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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My last post mentions that M had applied to Grinnell early decision, which is binding.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If she doesn’t attend there, she isn’t supposed to attend any college until fall of 2016.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But all was sunshine and roses when I wrote that, because I had yet to see the details of the financial aid offer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In Monday’s mail I saw the details of the offer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It was included in my post at the end of November, where I said of Grinnell (Choice #1), </div>
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“<span class="GramE"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">one</span></span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;"> of my sources calculated that with our situation, school #1 should be the second cheapest school on the list - with an annual cost of less than $19,000. The only school cheaper is the only public school and the one ranked last on her list. Also when we toured school #1, they said that they don't negotiate on aid packages, their offers cover 100% of need, and they cap loans at $3,500 per year.”</span></div>
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In early February I was looking at this… </div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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Where did I go wrong?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did I make another mistake on the CSS that I didn’t catch?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Why did I ever agree to let her apply Early Decision?</div>
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Just looking at “direct costs” (Tuition, Room, Board & Fees) minus the “aid package” (Grant, Loans & Work-Study), we were being asked to pay over $30,000 – when we were expecting to pay less than $19,000.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And why was M getting $4,500 in loans when they were supposed to be capped at $3,500?</div>
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There was just no way that we were able to pay for Grinnell. </div>
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I felt ill.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I sent off a quick e-mail to their Financial Aid Office.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Maybe this could be fixed.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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I followed up Monday night’s email with a Tuesday morning phone call.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I arranged for a 9:30am phone call with a financial aid counselor.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The scheduling secretary called me back at 9:20am to cancel.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>My counselor was running behind.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>She offered me slots on either Wednesday or Thursday.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I took the Wednesday slot because “I’m not going to be able to sleep until this can be resolved.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>She found me a slot later on Tuesday morning.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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The counselor sounded as if she had received a thousand of these calls before.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I tried to convince her that there must be some mistake.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>At the very most we might be able to afford $25,000, but that was our limit.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I told her about the loan cap (“An old policy,” she said.), and our expectations from guestimates I entered at collegedata.com.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>As I said that, I realized Grinnell could not be held responsible for something collegedata.com reported.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The counselor said as much.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>She said, according to what she has seen, our package was in-line with what she would expect it to be.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>All hope was evaporating. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And then she went to Grinnell’s own on-line calculator and entered the same data that she had used to generate our official aid packet.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It concluded that we should expect to pay $24,000.</div>
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This bothered her.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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She then said things that gave me hope:</div>
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<li><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -0.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">·<span style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->She would take our case to the case review meeting at the end of the week.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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<li><div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -0.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">·<span style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->If we couldn’t afford Grinnell, M could be released from early decision.</div>
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I immediately e-mailed or called the other schools that had accepted M and ask them if it was possible to restore her status, because our financial aid at Grinnell was not working out and we might get released.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>They all said that this was no problem.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>One said that they see this sort of thing happen once or twice each year. </div>
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The next day there was this…</div>
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Friday evening we were e-mailed; in their review meeting Grinnell decided to increase M’s grant by $4,085.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So we needed to pay about $28,700 before M could earn back $2,200 through her work study job.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This was still a far cry from our upper limit of $25,000, and another problem was that this felt like a one-year allowance so next year we’d be asked to pay over $30,000 again.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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My wife and I showed <span class="SpellE">M</span> the figures, shared our concern for next year’s aid, and showed her that if she used almost all of her college fund for year one, we could afford one year at Grinnell.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>M decided that she wanted to be released from Grinnell.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It was the only option that made any sense.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But yet I felt that she should be able to think it over some more. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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At dinner three days later I asked <span class="SpellE">M</span> to confirm her decision to seek her release from Grinnell.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>She hadn’t changed her mind.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The next day I sent the following e-mail asking for that release…<br />
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<span lang="EN" style="color: black; font-size: 11.5pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: "Segoe UI"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">Dear Grinnell<span class="GramE">,</span><br /><br /> We were misled by your representatives into believing that we could afford your school. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN" style="color: black; font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">·<span style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN" style="color: black; font-size: 11.5pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: "Segoe UI"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">We believe that at our upper limit we can make $25,000 per year work financially. Last week Tuesday, a financial aid councilor at your school, put the same numbers from our aid application into your own on-line calculator and discovered that it estimated that we would need to pay $24 K. This was the same financial aid councilor that put together our official offer that said we needed to pay $32 K. (Actually $34 K, with the opportunity to earn $2 K back through work study.)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN" style="color: black; font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">·<span style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; font: 7pt/normal "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN" style="color: black; font-size: 11.5pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: "Segoe UI"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">Because of the calculator issue. You re-assessed our case and increased the grant offer to bring our share to $28 K for 2015-16. This figure is still more than we can afford, and we believe that next year we would expect to be asked to pay $32 K once again. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="color: black; font-size: 11.5pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: "Segoe UI"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">We would never have applied Early Decision if we had received accurate information regarding what we would be required to pay. Your school provided us with the inaccurate information that led us to believe that we could afford your school.<br /><br /><span style="background: yellow; mso-highlight: yellow;">To put it more bluntly; you lied to us. And since this lie was tied in to my daughter's hopes and dreams, it really hurts. Going from the euphoria of being accepted to the despair of realizing that it is financially unattainable, made us feel like we were sucker punched in the gut.</span> <br /><br /> Please release us from our agreement to attend your school. Please let Beloit College, Illinois Wesleyan University, Knox College, Lawrence University, Truman State University and Washington University in St. Louis know that we have been officially released from this agreement as well. </span></div>
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I received an e-mail from someone in the financial aid office, telling me to expect a call that evening from the head of Financial Aid.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But the call that I received was from the Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid.</div>
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He wanted to hear this story.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He apologized.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He said his department needed to learn from this.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We talked about M’s college search, and his daughter’s search.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>They had visited 16 schools; many of them were the same.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He asked why M chose Grinnell.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I handed her the phone and she told him in some other words that it felt like home.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That the students that she met felt like members of her tribe.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He then told us, (I had him on speaker), that this was exactly the reason why his daughter chose Grinnell four years ago.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"></a>He also told us that four years ago he was a dad living in Kentucky and having a similar conversation with the previous head of admissions at Grinnell, where he was explaining why their aid package wasn’t enough for him to be able to afford Grinnell.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Of course, Grinnell made it happen for his daughter and now he was in the position to see if he could make it happen for M.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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He lowered the loan amount to $3,500 for each year she attended and capped the total family contribution to $25,000 for each year that she was our only child in college.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>When our second child goes off to college in two years, the total family contribution will be capped at $15,000.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It is all in writing.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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<span class="GramE">A happy ending.</span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I never thought that having figure out exactly how we can pay the $25,000 could make me feel this happy.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></div>
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Here are all of their offers, side-by-side…</div>
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Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-11967270659736310682015-02-01T10:50:00.000-08:002015-02-01T10:51:12.768-08:00This Journey is (Almost) CompletedA College Search has resulted in a college found. Yesterday M read the email that contained the link to the site that held the letter that started with the word "congratulations." Every acceptance letter that M received started with that word, but this notification was different. It wasn't just that this was from the school that was her #1 choice. It was that she had applied "early decision" - and that means you agree to attend if they accept you. We now know where she's going; Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa. Now M needs to fill out residence hall surveys and I need to redo the FAFSA.<br />
<br />
BUT - if she still had a choice, our next job would have been to compare the acceptance and financial aid packages as well as the schools. I was planning on creating a spreadsheet to compare possible majors, required courses, interesting clubs, and other items that might help M choose between the liberal arts schools that accepted her. Most (private?) schools will negotiate their aid packages to the point where the decision can be made based on the schools - and not on the money. For example if your expected cost is $25,000 a year at school A and $20,000 per year at school B - and your student prefers school A, it is time to call the admissions department at school A and tell them that if the money was equal, you'd love to go to school A. Or maybe you want to negotiate for a package with smaller loans and more work study...<br />
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If your student has options, you have until May 1st to sign on the dotted line, but since Falls' residence hall spaces, and aid money are slowly disappearing, I suggest negotiating sooner rather than later. Also, be kind to others; if your student has ruled out a school - let that school know so whatever scholarship/grant/aid money they had offered your student can be reallocated to other students.<br />
<br />
For those that care...<br />
<br />
Here is "Grinnell at a Glance" (from their website)...<br />
<ul>
<li>9:1 student-to-professor ratio</li>
<li>7<sup>th</sup> nationally in the percentage of Ph.D.s per graduate</li>
<li>38 majors and interdisciplinary concentrations</li>
<li>11 Fulbrights won in 2014</li>
<li>25% domestic students of color</li>
<li>200+ student groups 0 fraternities and sororities</li>
<li>40% of Grinnellians complete a Mentored Advanced Project (MAP)</li>
<li>13% international students</li>
<li>500+ course offerings</li>
<li>$1.8 billion endowment supporting academic programs and student life</li>
<li>More than 50% of Grinnellians study abroad</li>
<li>500+ events, lectures, performances, and symposia per year</li>
<li>20 NCAA Division III varsity sports</li>
<li>51% of Grinnellians hold an advanced degree 10 years after graduation</li>
</ul>
M wanted a quality school, with a diverse student population and a solid study abroad program. She is very excited to become a Pioneer.Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-1466959160131906812015-01-03T13:56:00.001-08:002015-01-03T13:56:56.477-08:00Applying for financial aidThree of M's seven schools required us to fill out the CSS / Financial Aid PROFILE from the College Board. All of them required the FAFSA in order to get financial aid. Which schools required the CSS? - the top schools, the most competitive schools. One of them required the CSS with the application, which was due on January 1st. Once we met that deadline, it was no problem to fill out the FAFSA with an estimate of our 2014 taxes (based on our W2s). I will need to re-do the FAFSA once our 2014 taxes are completed.<br />
<br />
Because I filled out both, I can compare the two. First of all, the FAFSA is free. The F and A stand for Free Application (for financial student aid.) The FAFSA is less comprehensive, and therefore easier to fill out. Financially, we are fairly uncomplicated, we don't own our businesses or real estate beyond our home. We don't receive (or pay) child support or other forms of untaxed income. We have jobs, we have pensions and 401Ks, we have a house that we are making payments on.<br />
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To fill out the FAFSA we needed our social security numbers (student and parent(s)), our last federal taxes (2013), our last paystubs for 2014 (because W-2s aren't available yet), and cash, savings and checking account balances. The questions basically amounted to some demographics, how much did you earn, how much do you pay in income taxes, and how much cash do you have on hand (savings, checking, cash). I was told that the FAFSA takes about 20 - 25 minutes to fill out. That seems about right.<br />
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The CSS on the other hand was $9 per submission and $16 per school, so $57 total for the three schools. The CSS also required everything that the FAFSA required PLUS the amounts of our retirement accounts and the value and amount owed on our home. They also required much greater details from last year's taxes. It took us about 3 hours to gather the require information and fill out the on-line forms.<br />
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It was so fine grained and complicated I felt like I needed a CPA to fill the thing out. And then I made an error on the CSS. The form asked for "extra Medicare deductions" and wondered what they meant by "extra." I clicked on their "help" feature, but nothing popped up, so I typed in the amounts deducted from our pay for Medicare. After I submitted, I closed out of the browser and found the pop-up window that explained the "extra" amount was for people who earned more that $200,000 annually. I immediately e-mailed the College Board, to ask what to do. I didn't want to re-file and pay another $57. The next business day they sent me a long response that made my eyes glaze over, but it included something about contacting the financial aid offices at the schools. That is what I did. I told them the item that I had entered $2000 for and that the correct number was $0. So far 2 of the 3 schools have told me that they have made the correction on their end, and the 3rd said that the will be out of the office until January 5th. So it seems like the schools are understanding and supportive.<br />
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On the topic of complicated forms, a local reporter who has covered issues related to the FAFSA for the last few years, told me that some in Congress are looking to reduce the FAFSA to how much did you earn, and how many kids do you have in college. That would mean people with wealth - but no income - would be eligible for the same aid as homeless and unemployed families. I didn't find the FAFSA difficult enough to be a problem in need of fixing.Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-14492284624992723662014-12-22T15:33:00.001-08:002014-12-22T16:00:54.573-08:00Getting in...Brief update...<br />
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M started to apply to schools in mid November. She met two early action deadlines on 11/15. Both of those small private, liberal arts schools have accepted her. She also has received her acceptance from the one public school to which she has applied. <br />
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We have yet to apply for financial aid, but so far every school has awarded her scholarships. You want numbers, here they are...<br />
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<strong><u>Liberal Arts School One</u></strong><br />
Annual Tuition, Room & Board, and Fees: $51,465<br />
Initial Annual Scholarship(s) Offered: $21,000<br />
Pre-Financial Aid, Annual Cost: $30,465<br />
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<strong><u>Liberal Arts School Two</u></strong><br />
Annual Tuition, Room & Board, and Fees: $50,290<br />
Initial Annual Scholarship(s) Offered: $20,000<br />
Pre-Financial Aid, Annual Cost: $30,290<br />
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<strong><u>Public School One</u></strong><br />
Annual Tuition, Room & Board, and Fees: $21,920<br />
Initial Annual Scholarship(s) Offered: $8,000<br />
Pre-Financial Aid, Annual Cost: $13,920<br />
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We can't afford $30K per year, but $14K is about what we are spending to feed and educate M now. So the public school option is giving us what we wanted - a financially doable college option. We are hoping that financial aid offers bring the liberal arts schools more in line with the public school option. If they do, M can make her choice based on the merits of the schools - and not the cost to attend.Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-31993103054900260482014-11-30T10:15:00.000-08:002014-11-30T10:15:15.236-08:00ApplyingOver the last 16 months, M has toured 21 schools (19 with me from New Jersey to Missouri and 2 local schools with her high school.) Application season is finally here. There are three ways of applying to a college; "Regular Admission," "Early Action," and "Early Decision." Early decision is binding. This means that if they accept you, you have to attend. Therefore you can only apply to one school Early Decision (ED). Early Action and Regular Decision are non-binding. So why would you apply ED, why not wait to compare financial aid offers? Schools accept a higher percentage of their ED applicants. If you fit their student profile, the school is hard to get into, and it is your clear first choice - it may make sense to apply ED. The downside is that you are bound to the school and loose all negotiating ability when it comes to financial aid.<br />
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In the very beginning I gave our stated goal of applying to 7 schools; 2 "reaches", 3 "matches" and 2 "safety schools," but that isn't exactly how it worked out. M is applying to 8 schools, only one of them is a reach and none of them are true safety schools, but many of them are almost guaranteed to accept her.<br />
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Let me define those terms again; "reach schools" are schools the student would love to get into but they fall short of that school's typical student profile when it comes to test scores or grade point average, "safety schools" are those where the student exceeds the school's average student. From there I bet you can figure out what makes a "match school."<br />
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So here is some data about each school, its students and its rates of acceptance and retention - in the order of M's preference. <br />
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Looking at the 25th percentile of ACT scores, you can see that her second favorite school - (a top 15 national university according to US News & World Reports) - is her reach school. And now let's look at school #1; (a top 20 Liberal Arts school). It is a match and it is hard to get into (36% acceptance rate). It could be a candidate for an Early Decision application. So now let's look at the financial side of the equation, one of my sources calculated that with our situation, school #1 should be the second cheapest school on the list - with an annual cost of less than $19,000. The only school cheaper is the only public school and the one ranked last on her list. Also when we toured school #1, they said that they don't negotiate on aid packages, their offers cover 100% of need, and they cap loans at $3,500 per year.<br />
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I didn't expect her to apply ED anywhere - as you can see, I didn't even include ED deadlines in my table - but all of the stars lined up and M asked to apply ED to school #1, so I agreed. And we do all need to agree. Applying ED requires the signature of the student, a parent, and a school counselor. We have until the end of the year to send in that additional form.<br />
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Notice also that M has a four-way tie for 4th. That is OK. Making artificial fine distinctions in your fall rankings doesn't make much sense. She may very well feel differently in the spring when things really matter - and you don't want the somewhat arbitrary fall rankings to influence her final decision.<br />
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The second-last of her 4th ranked schools (when listed alphabetically) is one of the more difficult to get in to (34% acceptance rate) and more like the top 2 in terms of rankings, retention and graduation rates. It is also projected to be among the least expensive. It is a rare liberal arts school in that it offers engineering as a major. You will also note that it is the furthest from home. M & I visited this one on our first trip 16 months ago. In fact it was so long ago that M couldn't remember our visit and wanted to drop it from her list, but I asked her to first meet with their admissions representative when he came through town doing interviews. She liked what he had to say, and I agreed to pay for an 8th application.<br />
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The rest of her 4th ranked schools and her 3rd ranked schools are small Midwestern liberal arts schools with similar numbers all up and down the line - I can see why they rank near each other for M.<br />
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M still has two applications to complete. She plans to meet an Early Action deadline tomorrow, and a Regular Decision deadline in mid-January. She met a few mid-November Early Action deadlines, so we should get a few decisions before Christmas...<br />
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Next Up: Financial Aid (and scholarships?)Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-52089580340601895532014-07-09T19:06:00.000-07:002014-07-09T19:06:41.666-07:00The ListAnd then there were 12. <br />
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Using M’s criteria (and expanding on it) my original list of schools to consider contained 45 schools. We eliminated some schools because the Princeton Review surveys indicated they wouldn’t be a good fit socially. We eliminated some schools because when we visited, they didn’t feel right. We eliminated some schools because M’s ACT scores were higher or lower than their typically admitted student. <br />
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You should consider many schools and then trim your list. Remember our goal is to find 7 schools to which M would like to apply (8/1/13). And now, just before application season, we are down to 12. We have visited 8 of these 12 and we will visit the remaining 4 this month. So we will have a list of between 8 and 12 schools that M has visited and liked. She has her favorites and I have mine. One similarity between our lists is that the harder it is to get into, the more we like the school – but that is not why they are our favorites. Here are the key stats for me… <br />
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<td class="xl65" height="20" style="background-color: transparent; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; height: 15pt; width: 61pt;" width="81"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Schools</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 59pt;" width="78"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Acceptance</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 29pt;" width="38"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">ACT^</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 48pt;" width="64"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Cost*</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 51pt;" width="68"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Return</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 67pt;" width="89"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">6yr Grad Rate</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 56pt;" width="74"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">US News@</span></u></strong></td><td class="xl65" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext black; border-style: solid solid solid none; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px; width: 41pt;" width="54"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Forbes</span></u></strong></td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl66" height="20" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt; height: 15pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">2 Univ.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">8 – 15%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">33</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">14K – 21K</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">96% - 98%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">93% - 96%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">1, 14</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">3, 57</span></td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl66" height="20" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt; height: 15pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">4 Lib Arts</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">34% - 37%<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">30</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">18K – 20K</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">91% - 95%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">87% - 88%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">17 - 36</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">48 - 82</span></td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl66" height="20" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt; height: 15pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">4 Lib Arts</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">60% - 78%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">28</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">21K – 25K</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">88% - 91%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">76% - 82%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">59- 82</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">167-296</span></td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl66" height="20" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt; height: 15pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">1 Public L.A.</span></td><td class="xl67" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">74%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">27</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">16K</span></td><td class="xl67" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">89%</span></td><td class="xl67" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">70%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Region 10</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">359</span></td></tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"><td class="xl66" height="20" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext; border-style: none solid solid; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt; height: 15pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">1 Lib Arts</span></td><td class="xl67" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">70%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">24</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">23K</span></td><td class="xl67" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">81%</span></td><td class="xl67" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">63%</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">Region 11</span></td><td class="xl66" style="background-color: transparent; border-color: black windowtext windowtext black; border-style: none solid solid none; border-width: 0px 0.5pt 0.5pt 0px;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: x-small;">358</span></td>
</tr>
</tbody></colgroup></table>
^- Average or 25% and 75% ACT Score. <br />
*- Expected annual costs, according to collegedata.com using M’s real data (grades, gpa, parental income) <br />
@-US News has separate rankings for “national universities,” “national liberal arts schools,” and “regional (midwest) schools.” <br />
<br />
So the top schools (by rankings) get better students (by ACT scores) and have higher percentages of their freshman returning for their sophomore years – and higher graduation rates. They also tend to have better financial aid, so they actually cost less. The down side is that they are popular schools to apply to, so they have the lowest acceptance rates. <br />
<br />
M’s high school career has been very good. Her numbers; GPA, ACT, class rank are better than mine ever were, as is her extra-curricular resume (plays, sports, clubs, leadership positions.) That said, I consider the national universities to be a “reach” for her, and the last liberal arts school listed above to be a “safety school.” Collegedata.com calls that safety school a “good bet” and lists all of the other schools as “maybes.” <br />
<br />
In a month we should have the list down to the 7 or 8 schools to which she will apply. Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-64525041837130932982014-01-18T09:04:00.003-08:002014-01-18T09:04:56.564-08:00Happy New Year! <br />
<br />
So 5 posts in August and then… nothing. It is hard making progress on the college search when school is in session, but we did manage to attend two college fairs. The first was for “colleges that change lives” (some small liberal arts schools that are below many people’s radar) and the second fair was a more general college fair. Both were in September. So what have we been doing since then? Not too much. M took the ACT in December and has been ignoring, reading and/or filing her incoming mail. And I, of course, have been tweaking “the list.” <br />
<br />
I learned in August that M was interested in medium sized universities, and she liked being within a day’s car trip from home. So I went back to Princeton Review and to College Data and searched for schools using the new criteria. I found a few more schools worth checking out, and added 4 to her list. <br />
<br />
Let me talk about CollegeData.com for a moment. This site has a great search tool, called “college match” that allows you to create a list based on geography, majors, size of school, difficulty getting in, average student debt, and more. It then compiles a list that looks like this… <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtRRLGRuJvgirJTHVJ-6JRa7yjgUqTN6wMs08PaPRlUo16N3etHm6jOEIuRbzN_m3Hrx3ReFwHCuFVjGWZnpTLZY-oTU5E-j5Gc-_GIc0JghwOG2DWel_r5tkDssW0GC3WDcN2diYhjD0/s1600/collegedata.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtRRLGRuJvgirJTHVJ-6JRa7yjgUqTN6wMs08PaPRlUo16N3etHm6jOEIuRbzN_m3Hrx3ReFwHCuFVjGWZnpTLZY-oTU5E-j5Gc-_GIc0JghwOG2DWel_r5tkDssW0GC3WDcN2diYhjD0/s1600/collegedata.png" height="253" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<br />
I think I told you that I love spreadsheets. And with a little input regarding your student’s grades, classes, and test scores, it can tell you which of these schools are a “Good Bet”, “Maybe” or a “Reach” for your student. And if you answer a few financial questions, it can calculate an estimate of how much a particular school will cost you. <br />
<br />
You can see for yourself that ticket price and your cost are not related to each other. For example, Princeton has a sticker price of $57,495 per year, but is estimated to set me back just $14,492. While Pittsburg State University in Pittsburg, Kansas has a much lower sticker price ($26,788) but is likely to cost me just $1 less than Princeton. Nothing against PSU, but I think Princeton is probably worth the extra buck. This is actionable information; useful in deciding where to apply. <br />
<br />
You can sort by a wide variety of data including freshman satisfaction and (4 year) graduation rates – and then save schools into your “data locker” for future use. <br />
<br />
My next adventure, nailing down the spring break road trip (across Indiana & Illinois) and planning the summer trip(s) (Iowa & Minnesota). Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-9240012661244879232013-08-31T07:59:00.002-07:002016-05-26T11:19:15.053-07:00Our first college tour trip.College visits are good because they are invaluable research and – because they demonstrate interest in the school - they can actually help you gain admission. <br />
<br />
Remember, in the fall of her senior year, we want to have seven schools that M would like to attend. Ideally, I want her to visit every school she might want to attend. To get to seven schools your student would be happy to attend, you need to start off with a larger list of possibilities, research those schools and refine your list. <br />
<br />
Also remember those questions that we started off with… size of school, size of town, distance from home, etc.? The answers you received when you asked these questions of yourself (or your student) in your home may not align with the way you feel when you are actually there on campus. Can I see myself attending school here? Is X hours by car too far or not far enough? What feels too big or too small? Are the students like me in important ways; how seriously do they take school, what do they do for fun? <br />
<br />
We made 10 college visits in the month before M’s junior year of high school. Is this too many? Is this too early? When we were on campus, admissions people often asked auditoriums full of potential students 1) how many schools they had visited and 2) what year of school they would start in the fall. By my observation, most had visited a handful of schools and most were “rising” seniors. About 30% were “rising” juniors. <br />
<br />
So here was our first tour… <br />
<ul>
<li>Thursday - Washington University in St. Louis (MO) </li>
<li>Friday - Denison and Kenyon (OH) </li>
<li>Monday - Haverford and Swarthmore (PA) </li>
<li>Tuesday - Bryn Mawr (PA) </li>
<li>Wednesday - Princeton (NJ) </li>
<li>Thursday - Lafayette (PA) </li>
<li>Friday - Oberlin (OH) </li>
</ul>
M said that she wanted an academically-challenging, small, liberal arts school preferably in the Midwest. <br />
<ul>
<li> Three schools met that description*; </li>
</ul>
o Denison, Kenyon and Oberlin are liberal arts schools in Ohio. <br />
<ul>
<li>Four of them were liberal arts schools in Pennsylvania; </li>
</ul>
o Haverford, Swarthmore, and Bryn Mawr are in Philadelphia suburbs. <br />
o Lafayette is about two hours north of Philly. <br />
<ul>
<li>Two of them were medium-sized (5,000 to 10,000 undergrads) universities; Washington and Princeton. </li>
</ul>
* - By “small” we mean less than 3,000 undergrads. “Academically-challenging” is harder to quantify, but these liberal arts schools were ranked in the Top 50 in the US, & the universities were in the Top 25. <br />
<br />
Why these schools? I chose these schools in part because they were far away, and therefore would be difficult to visit when M’s high school would be in session. They were seen as “test visits” where we could find out about tours and information sessions, and learn the similarities and differences among school in a low risk environment. None of these schools were very high on M’s list. <br />
Our trip started at what could possibly be the end of M’s college journey - in St. Louis, at Washington U. If you want to attend a liberal arts college and get a bachelor’s in engineering, you can attend a liberal arts college with a 3+2 program. These programs say that if you take their math and physics courses, and maintain a high enough GPA, you are guaranteed a spot one of the engineering schools with which they partner. They all seem to partner with Wash. U. and they were having a “college search kick-off” presentation on Thursday morning. We arrived Wednesday night and looked around. <br />
<br />
It took about 10 minutes of exploring the campus for M to declare “I could go here.” So maybe she didn’t want as small a school as she thought she did. It then struck her that by starting at an engineering school, she could graduate in 4 years instead of 5. The tour the next day only confirmed her excitement for the school. Besides having an engineering school, they have a business school, and they allow students to double major and minor across schools. M imagined double majoring in engineering and business. <br />
<br />
This is the reason to tour campuses; it helps the student envision their future – and not just their college years. <br />
<br />
Without getting into too many details, M was able to remove Denison and Bryn Mawr off her list. M didn’t like how the campus was laid out at Denison and Bryn Mawr couldn’t persuade her to try an all- women’s college. But the biggest surprise is that it was the two medium-sized universities that were her favorites. Unfortunately, these are the two hardest schools to get in to. While both Washington U. and Princeton have a freshman class bigger than the entire enrollment of some of the liberal arts schools we visited; they get so many more applicants that they still end up accepting less than 20% of those that apply. And in Princeton’s case it is less than 10%. <br />
<br />
This is why you need to find 7 schools that you’d like to attend. <br />
<br />
The other take-away is that I need to revise my list and add some more medium-sized universities. Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-51910888861487061852013-08-13T19:29:00.000-07:002014-12-31T09:25:20.320-08:00Three Steps in this Dance<div class="ecxMsoNormal">
What college you (or your student) attend is the result of three individual steps; 1) Deciding where to apply/applying, 2) Schools deciding who to accept/determining aid, and 3) Deciding which school’s offer to accept. This higher level view of the process might help us understand what is going on. </div>
<div class="ecxMsoNormal">
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Let’s start by noting who the actors are in the three steps of this dance; only in the 2<sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">nd</span></sup> step are the colleges in control. The students have control in the 1<sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">st</span></sup> and 3<sup><span style="font-size: x-small;">rd</span></sup> steps. We spend most of our time in the first step, and I spent some time discussing pieces of this step; creating a list, refining your list, etc. with the goal of determining the 7 schools to which we apply. But now let’s think about the colleges’ side of step one; they are marketing their hearts out to get the best and brightest students to apply to their school. If no one applies to their school this year, the school will have new admissions people very soon. If they fail to convince enough good students to come to campus for a couple years in a row, the school will be in trouble. Those schools and their admissions people need you. They are sales people and they have a product to sell. </div>
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How can they get you to consider their brand? Tours, colorful brochures, college fairs, postcards, pens, t-shirts, websites, emails, visits to your school. They are marketing 24/7. More schools make contact with the student than you can reasonably consider. If you have your list of 20-30 schools, or at least know what types of schools you are pursuing, feel free to recycle materials from the schools that are not of interest. If they have a way to remove yourself from their mailing list, do it. They will save money and the planet will thank you.</div>
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Enjoy being the belle of the ball in the first step of the dance, because the second step – the one where you are powerless – is coming. But what they use to make their decision in step two, is information they will gladly give you in step one. Listen to what they say. Not all schools are alike. Some schools are test optional. They may differ on who they want (or don’t want) your letters of recommendation from; guidance counselor, core subject teacher, coach, other. What I heard repeatedly during campus visits (we’ve logged 10 now), is that 1) they want to feel like they know the student through their essay (possibly other contact) and 2) they take demonstrated interest into account. Showing up on campus for a tour, communication with their admissions officer (admissions officers have regions, so one is assigned to each student), contacting the professors or tour guides you meet with follow up questions or even a simple thank you - are all ways you can demonstrate interest in their school. </div>
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They want to feel that you know - and want - what they are all about. They want students who will 1) accept their offer if they make one and 2) not transfer out after their freshman year. One of the reasons for these preferences is that it makes their school look better. The "best" schools have low acceptance rates. The more likely that the students they make offers to agree to come to the school, the fewer students they need to admit to reach their desired number of students, so the lower their acceptance rates will be. The "best" schools also have high rates of graduation - that is the percentage of students who start at a school, graduate from there (usually measured after 6 years). Students who transfer out lower their graduation numbers. And lets face it, our students want to go to a school they feel comfortable with, and they want to graduate from that school too.</div>
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When we get to step three (April of the student's senior year) we will want to schedule one last visit to the schools we are considering. </div>
Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-74938189914332226832013-08-13T18:30:00.003-07:002014-12-31T09:22:20.743-08:00What do I know? (My history of applying for colleges)<div class="ecxMsoNormal">
I have talked with other parents of high school students about what I know of the college search process. They all sound grateful for the information. But really, what do I know? Sure, I give links to several of my sources. But maybe you’d like to know where I am coming from. </div>
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This post is more personal, and not filled with much actionable information. You have been warned.</div>
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First of all, “hello.” I am Jim from Milwaukee. My working-class parents sent my brother and me to the Catholic high schools of our choice. My mother had attended a few semesters of a local college before she landed a job in her field and quit school, and my dad got a job straight out of high school. They promised to pay for our high school educations, but college was up to us. A year after my brother went to the co-ed school a short bus ride away; I started at the all-boys school with the reputation of being the best high school in the area. I wanted to know how I measured up. </div>
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From there, my college search was guided by what I could glean from my friends and college recruiters that visited my school. Up to that point, most of what I knew about schools was the strength of their football and men’s basketball teams. I had no idea what to make of the brochures that came in the mail. I was surprised to learn that there were so many colleges in Iowa. I was lost. </div>
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My brother had decided to live at home and attend UWM, but I felt I could do better. But I’m not sure what “better” meant to me. </div>
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Since I didn’t know what I was doing, I decided to turn the choice over to the colleges. I applied for school specific scholarships. I stopped working on a scholarship application to Notre Dame because the University of Dallas gave me a 50% scholarship. The search was over… temporarily. </div>
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I first set foot on the campus a few days before class started in the fall of 1984. I felt that I wanted to major in psychology and become a clinical psychologist. It was only then that I discovered that UD had few course options for students. We all took US History, Math, Philosophy, English, and a foreign language. Not only was English required; but specifically all freshman took Literary Tradition I in the fall and Literary Tradition II in the spring. When they said Literary <i>Tradition</i>, they were serious; we read <span lang="EN">the <i><u>Iliad</u></i>, the <i><u>Odyssey</u></i>, and the <i><span style="color: windowtext;">Aeneid</span></i> that first term, and <i><u>Beowulf</u></i> and <i><u>Sir Gawain and the Green Knight</u> </i>in the second. Not only wasn’t I interested in these books, but with all of these requirements, I was only expected to take one psychology course before my junior year. And it was in that course that I learned that the UD taught a particular strain of psychology called “phenomenology.” The only school that offered a Ph.D. in phenomenology was Duquesne University in Pittsburgh. If I can’t get in there, then what can I do?</span></div>
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<span lang="EN">So I was at the wrong school, but I also made a financial aid mistake. I was presented with a financial aid package that included a small scholarship, a grant, a work study job and a loan. I looked at the money that I had saved and fearing debt, I rejected the loan. My second year’s package was identical to the first. But now my savings were gone, so I would have needed twice the loans to meet my expenses. I moved home and transferred to UWM.</span></div>
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<span lang="EN">There I learned what I needed to do to get into a Ph.D. program in clinical psychology. I decided to double major in psychology and sociology; I got good grades; my test scores were good too. I was able to work on a research project in the department, and this not only gave me experience but allowed me to get better letters of recommendations. I took a leadership position in the honor society for psychology students. I also learned that I would need to apply to many schools in order to get in to one. </span></div>
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<span lang="EN">I applied to a dozen. I can’t remember them all. I got an interview at the University of Houston. It didn’t go well. At least I learned that that Texas school was a bad fit before I enrolled. None of the schools accepted me right away, but I made a few waiting lists. The University of South Dakota finally found a place for me, but the thought of living in Vermillion, SD didn’t appeal to me so I held out. On the final decision day, at 10:30 in the morning, I called the schools where I was on the waiting list. I got through to a professor at Kent State who checked her list and found that they had an opening. I don’t think I was the next person on their list to offer it to, but there I was on the phone, so she decided to save herself some phone calls and offer it to me. I was given free tuition, but I didn’t get a research assistantship (an ok paying, departmental job) until my second semester.</span></div>
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<span lang="EN">Two years later when I applied to grad schools in Sociology, I was told that they weren’t as selective. I applied to three of the top 20 programs, and received three letters of acceptance. I was in at three Big 10 schools; Wisconsin, Minnesota and Northwestern. I was able to visit Northwestern and Wisconsin before I had to decide. I loved Northwestern. It was small, homey, and the facilities were great. Wisconsin was ranked #1 in the country, but it felt like a sociology factory. The professor I met with at 10am didn’t know the professor I was meeting at 11am and wasn’t even sure how to direct me to the appointment. But in the end I chose Minnesota because they were the only school of the three to waive my tuition and give me a job (as a teaching assistant.)</span></div>
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<span lang="EN">In my grad school days, I learned that many of my classmates when to small liberal arts colleges while others went to large state schools. They had different experiences and yet we wound up in the same place. I did feel however that most of them had a better idea what they were doing in graduate school than I did. The liberal arts kids in particular had worked side by side with professors and most had headed a research project “senior thesis.” I had pretty much just gone to class. I know I mentioned the research project I worked on as an undergrad, but a graduate student was in charge of the project’s day-to-day operations - and it was that graduate student who wrote my letter of recommendation and then got the professor to sign it. </span></div>
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<span lang="EN">To sum up… I have attended 5 universities (including two classes at MATC) and I have been accepted into 5 Ph.D. programs. I complete the course work for a master’s in psychology and a Ph.D. in sociology, but only earned a master’s degree in sociology – and it only took me 11 years to do it. I made mistakes by not applying to enough schools, not visiting schools to assess if I fit, rejecting loans that I would need to complete my studies. I learned that a good liberal arts education would have been beneficial, but also that large state schools can take you where you want to go. So the #1 question to answer is “where does the student want to go?” But remember that our 16 year olds may not specifically know where they want to go, so get them to experience some of their options (schools or careers.) Let them figure out what feels right for them, and find a situation where they are free to become who they want to be. </span></div>
Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-79692975971180179692013-08-04T20:36:00.002-07:002014-12-31T09:18:16.012-08:00Paying for CollegeIn my first post I mentioned applying to seven schools, but I didn't really explain why. Sure one of the reasons is to make sure you get in somewhere, but the other reason is because of the cost of school. If you have multiple schools that you'd be happy to attend, then you can make your choice based on the cost of schools. Your reach schools might end up costing less than your safety schools.<br />
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Do not assume that you need to be rich to go to a private school, and that the rest of us must go to state universities. Schools offer financial aid, and the private colleges tend to have endowments that they use to make attending affordable. Aid packages can include scholarships (awarded based on some criteria), grants (free money), loans, and work study jobs. M and I just returned from a tour that included of seven of the top 50 "best liberal arts colleges in the US" according to US News and World Reports (Swarthmore #3, Haverford #9, Bryn Mawr #26, Oberlin #26, Kenyon #32, Lafayette #39, Denison #49) - and two of the top 25 "best universities in the US" according to <a href="http://www.shanghairanking.com/">http://www.shanghairanking.com/</a> (Princeton #6, Washington U. #23)- and 1) they all said that they meet all of a student's need for four years, 2) the top schools said they admit students without knowing if the student needs aid (need blind) and 3) the many of the top schools don't make loans part of the package.<br />
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<strong>Determining Need</strong><br />
There is a form that needs to be filled out annually to apply for financial aid, the FAFSA. FAFSA is the Free Application for Federal Student Aid - and it is located at <a href="http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/">http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/</a>. Using the FAFSA information regarding a family's financial situation, the schools are able to determine how much a family can afford to pay for tuition. This is what you are asked to pay. The rest of the expenses - tuition, books, fees, transportation, room and board, etc. are covered in your financial aid package. So if at school one the total cost might be $60,000 per year; and school 2 might be $20,000. But based on your FAFSA, the schools figure that your family can afford $10,000 per year - so to you the schools cost the same $10,000. Many schools have financial aid calculators where you can run your actual numbers and get an idea of what a school will consider your need to be. <br />
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I heard this sort of thing before, so that is why I felt that touring these expensive schools was not a waste of time. But Princeton actually put a financial aid chart on their materials, along the lines of "Students from families earning less than $40,000 annually - 100% who applied for aid, received aid. And the average award was 100% of the cost (including expenses) of school. Student from families earning between $40K and $60K - 100% who applied for aid received aid and the average award covered 100% of tuition and 80% of expenses..." In our bracket we could expect to pay 2 or 3 thousand more than we are paying for M's high school tuition. No loans. This is cheaper than the in-state tuition and room and board at any of the UW system schools.<br />
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<strong>Need Blind vs. Need Aware Admissions</strong><br />
Like I mentioned, the top schools we looked at (Princeton, Haverford, Swarthmore) are need blind when it comes to admissions. This means that your ability to pay has no influence on their decision to admit you/ your student. Other schools like Lafayette might take a wealthier student over a less wealthy one ("need aware") so that they don't drain their endowments - but they said that this only ends up effecting "borderline students."<br />
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<strong>Money on Campus</strong><br />
Good students should not be discouraged to apply to good schools. They are not easy to get into - Princeton accepted just less than 8% of applicants last year - but if you can get in, they have the resources to support your education, and I'm not talking only tuition, room and board... but also research jobs, internship grants (where they pay for you to take an unpaid internship), travel stipends... Another money matter; the cost of life on campus. Some of these schools don't want money to be a barrier for students, so everything on campus - concerts, sporting events, plays, etc. are free with a student id. Swarthmore allows you to apply for funds to finance your own campus event - as long as everyone on campus is invited. They told the story of one student who threw herself a birthday party every year with these small grants.<br />
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So don't worry about the money, at least not until you're deciding which offer to accept.Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9037846070028434206.post-16635517657889511982013-08-01T19:38:00.002-07:002014-12-31T09:10:08.341-08:00A College SearchWelcome to my blog "A College Search." Note that it isn't "My College Search" - I am not looking to attend college, I am old enough to have a child looking to attend college. In fact, it is my 16 year-old, soon-to-be high school junior who is looking to attend a school. For the purpose of this blog, I will refer to my daughter by the initial M. My goal here is not to document M's search, I mainly want to discuss the process in general, but it will be colored by her specifics. <br />
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It would also be incorrect to refer to this blog as "M's College Search," because she is not doing much of the driving. As a high school student, M is busy with her sport, plays and other activities. So to a large degree this is my show, but I cannot do it alone. I can do the work, but M needs to provide the dream. Also note that the goal is not to get into someone else's idea of "the best school," but to get your student into the best school for them. No website can give you that answer. You need to know your child and his/her goals. The best way to start might be asking the question... <br />
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<strong>Q #1: Where do you see yourself going to school?</strong><br />
M and I first discussed what she wanted out of a college after her first semester of high school completed. Yes, this is a little early, but she brought it up. I asked her general questions like the ones that can be found at <a href="https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/find-colleges/how-find-your-college-fit">https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/find-colleges/how-find-your-college-fit</a>; large school or small school? big city, suburb or small town? how far away from home? what might you want to study?<br />
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<strong>Task: Create a List</strong><br />
She wanted an academically challenging small school, in our region - but at least an hour from home. She didn't have a preference for setting, and she said she might want to study engineering. With that information, I was able to start compiling a list of possible schools. (I decided to keep that list - and everything else related to M's search in a spreadsheet.) <br />
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<strong>Tip #1:</strong> Plan on your student changing their mind, especially if you are starting early. Create a broader list than the one they defined. In my case, M said "our region" - the Midwest, but I included schools that were in the south and east coast. I also included some medium and large schools.<br />
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<strong>Task: Research the Schools on your List</strong><br />
For this I used <a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/">http://www.princetonreview.com/</a>. Two nice features of this site are 1) "Other Schools to Consider" on the lower left of any particular school's page. (Use their list to build your list if you think it might need building or refining.) and 2) Rankings and Lists on the right side. These give you some sense of what the students think of the school. By research, I mean start recording the information that might be important to your student. For M, I recorded those ranking and lists data, the number of students, location, the percent female, the percent international, academic rating (and no, I don't know exactly what that number means). I also copied and pasted the "(School's) Students Say..." text into my spreadsheet. Also are the student's possible majors offered? I also quickly discovered that small liberal arts schools don't offer engineering - but the school websites explained that they had partnerships with schools with engineering programs. M could start at a small school and - if her grades were high enough in her math and physics courses - she would be able to move to an engineering school to finish her schooling. So I started to record these types of programs (4+1 yr at engineering school, 3+2, and 2+1+1+1 - where your 3rd and 5th year are at the engineering school, but you get to spend your senior year with your class). I also recorded which schools they typically partnered with.<br />
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<strong>Task: Check in with your Student/ Refine the List of Schools</strong><br />
I then presented her with a sheet on each school. (I also removed the name of each school from that sheet, to prevent her from selecting a school based on perceived reputation or some other bias.) M's task was then to give each school a judgment - Yes/ No/ or Maybe. Record these judgments in your spreadsheet. Pay attention to if the student said "yes" or "maybe" to any school that was outside of her original parameters. Ask her why. Have her parameters changed? If so you might want to add more schools that meet her new parameters.<br />
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So now your student has told you that school X is a "No" because they got listed in "dorms like dungeons" or something else that you think is a ridiculous reason to not consider a school. You can push back and ask them if they want to change it to a "maybe" and see for themselves, or you can just go with it. Remember, there are thousands of colleges in the US and each student only needs to go to one. The list needs to get culled. You need to eliminate schools. Some will be eliminated for reasons you don't understand or agree with. That is OK.<br />
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<strong>So where are we heading?</strong> <br />
We want a list of schools to which our student will apply. If your student wants to go to a less selective type of school, you don't need to apply to many schools. The school I graduated from, for example accepts 70% of applicants and my test scores were well above their averages, so if that is where I wanted to go, I would only apply to that one school. But the general rule when applying to more selective schools is to apply to 7 schools; 2 "reach schools" that the student would love to get into but they fall short of that school's typical student profile when it comes to test scores or grade point average, 3 "match schools", and 2 "safety schools" where the student exceeds the school's average student.Jim from Milwaukeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510058532309701705noreply@blogger.com0